Seventeen-year debate with brother-in-law resolved by Wikipedia edit later reverted; man claims moral victory regardless
Staten Island Man Wins Annual Argument About Whether Staten Island Counts as New York City
NEW YORK, NEW YORK — A Staten Island resident has declared victory in the seventeenth annual iteration of his ongoing argument with his brother-in-law about whether Staten Island is genuinely part of New York City or whether it occupies a more ambiguous status that the brother-in-law has described, across seventeen years and in various formulations, as “technically yes, culturally questionable, geographically separate, and in practice a suburb with a ferry.” The victory was declared by the Staten Island resident alone, by his own criteria, following a Wikipedia edit that has since been reverted.
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The Argument
The argument, which began at a Thanksgiving dinner in 2007 and has recurred annually at Christmas, Easter, and various family events since, covers the question of whether Staten Island’s status as one of the five official boroughs of New York City qualifies it as genuinely, culturally, and experientially part of the city, or whether its geographic separation, suburban character, car-dependency, and the specific quality of the ferry crossing constitute a form of de facto independence that the official designation does not capture.
Philip Barretto, 54, of Tottenville, argues that official borough status is determinative, that Staten Island has contributed significantly to New York City’s history and culture, and that the argument is settled by the fact of the municipal boundary. His brother-in-law, Joseph Chen of Astoria, argues that a place where you need a car to go to the grocery store is, by definition, not a city in any experiential sense, and that the ferry is a charming anomaly rather than meaningful integration. Both positions have been expressed, across seventeen years, at volumes that have occasionally required the intervention of other family members.
The British have an extensive vocabulary for this type of argument, which is not specific to New York but finds there a particularly well-documented home. London slang words have developed partly through exactly this kind of definitional dispute about what counts as London, which has been ongoing since at least the Victorian era and shows no sign of resolution. The outer boroughs question in New York has a precise parallel in the London outer borough question, and the vocabulary for calling out the person who insists on a definition that happens to benefit their own position is, in both cities, well-developed.
The Wikipedia Incident
Barretto’s claim of victory derives from an edit he made to the Wikipedia article on Staten Island last Tuesday, adding to the opening paragraph the phrase “and is unambiguously and fully part of New York City in every meaningful sense of the term.” The edit remained live for approximately four hours before being reverted by a Wikipedia editor who noted the phrase was “non-neutral, unsourced, and appears to be advocacy.” Barretto has printed the original edit and the subsequent revert and brought both to a family dinner, where he argued that the four hours of Wikipedia recognition constituted a legitimate citation. Chen said it did not. Barretto said it did. The argument has entered its eighteenth year.
A Staten Island resident who has lived in the borough for thirty years and has no opinion on the Wikipedia incident said the argument was “very Staten Island,” which she said as a compliment, mostly. She noted that the borough had produced significant contributions to American music, food culture, and political history and that its relationship to the rest of the city was “complicated in the way that all honest relationships are complicated, and I have no interest in either side of this argument pretending otherwise.” She is clearly correct. Barretto and Chen are clearly not listening. The ferry runs every thirty minutes. Cockney rhyming slang and its elaborate indirection offer a useful parallel for the specific art of the argument that is not really about its stated subject, and the British slang quiz provides the vocabulary for testing one’s fluency in the tradition. Both cities have been having this argument, about different boroughs and different ferries, for longer than either would like to admit.
The Ferry Question
The Staten Island Ferry carries approximately 70,000 passengers per day between St. George Terminal and Whitehall Street. It is free, runs 24 hours, and takes approximately 25 minutes. It is, by most measures, an excellent ferry. Whether its existence constitutes evidence that Staten Island is part of the city or evidence that it requires a specific mechanism to access the city is, in the Barretto-Chen taxonomy, the central question. The ferry itself has no opinion. It simply runs, every thirty minutes, between two places that are arguing about their relationship while the ferry continues connecting them regardless of what either side calls it. Barretto boards the ferry each morning. Chen takes the N train. The argument continues. The ferry is indifferent. Its indifference is the most settled thing about the situation.
The Barretto-Chen argument has, over seventeen years, developed its own internal vocabulary, conventions, and ritual moments. Barretto always leads with the official municipal definition. Chen always responds with the ferry. Barretto notes that the ferry connects the island to the city, which proves integration. Chen notes that the need for a ferry proves separation. Both men are correct about the facts they cite. Neither man has changed his position in seventeen years. The argument has reached the stage that long-running arguments reach when they are no longer really about their subject and have become instead a form of contact, a way of being in relationship that neither party would describe as affectionate but that both would, if pressed, admit they would miss. The Wikipedia edit was not about Wikipedia. Staten Island knows what it is.
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